User Tools

You are here: start » public » nnels » etext » poetry
Trace:

Differences

This shows you the differences between two versions of the page.

Link to this comparison view

Both sides previous revision Previous revision
Next revision 		Previous revision
public:nnels:etext:poetry [2020/05/08 14:17]
rachel.osolen [Q&A] 		public:nnels:etext:poetry [2022/08/29 14:57] (current)
rachel.osolen
Line 1: Line 1:
 ====== Poetry ====== ====== Poetry ======
  
-We mark up poetry differently than normal paragraph text. For Poetry, we apply the following DAISY Styles in Word:+For the most part, poetry is marked up the same way as other text.
  
-  * Poem (DAISY) +Use ''Normal'' style for the content, and ''Heading'' styles for chapters, sections, and poem titles.
-  * Poem - Title (DAISY) +
-  * Poem - Byline (DAISY) +
-  * Author (DAISY)+
  
-By poetry, we mean any text where definition of poetic structure is required. The Poem (DAISY) style is an appropriate form of markup for song texts or lyrics.+Poetry is an artistic medium, so we retain direct formatting such as: strong, emphasis, underline, and strikethrough.
  
-=====Styles===== +Languages can be applied as needed. See the [[public:nnels:etext:language|Language]] section for more info.
-====Poem (DAISY)==== +
-The Poem (DAISY) style is used to wrap the entire poem, or fragment of a poem, in the <poem> tag and the lines of the poem in the <line> tags in XML.+
  
-The Poem (DAISY) style may also be used to mark up texts displaying elements of versification, metre and rhyme where the use of the Normal paragraph style is considered insufficiently accurate. +<note>If you come across a poem that is an [[public:nnels:etext:epigraph|epigraph]], or styled as a blockquote in the original ebook, apply the  ''Quote'' style. These usually appear at the beginning of chapters, or within non-poetry ebooks. When in doubt, [[public:nnels:etext:q_a|ask]]!</note>
  
-**You must always apply the Poem (DAISY) style first, before you apply any of the Title, Author, or Byline styles.** +=====Complex Formatting and Producer's Notes======
  
-====Poem - Title (DAISY)==== +Sometimes you will come across a poem that has more complex formatting that cannot be translated to EPUB.
-The Poem - Title (DAISY) style is used to wrap the title of the poem in the <title> tag in XML.+
  
-<note>Sometimes you will have a book of poetry that uses titles as a point of navigation (similar to the chapters of a book.) In these cases you can markup the titles as a Heading Style and then copy the Title directly below the Heading Style and apply Poem - Title (DAISY).  This will mean there will be two titles for each poem. Only do this if the book is set up to have the titles work similar to chapter navigation.+We cannot retain this formatting for EPUB conversion.
  
 +<note>If you have any complex formatting that is not covered below, please ask in the [[public:nnels:etext:q_a|Q&A]].</note>
  
-Example:+====Producer's Note=====
  
-''Title of Poem [Heading 1 Style]''+In these cases where we have removed complex formatting include a [[public:nnels:etext:producers-note|Producer's Note]] section at the beginning of the book.
  
-''Title of Poem [Poem - Title (DAISY)]''</note>+<WRAP center round box 80%> 
 +**Producer's Note [Heading Style 1]**
  
-====Poem - Byline (DAISY)==== +This book originally appeared with special paragraph and line spaces that added to the meaning of the text. Due to the conversion process these design elements have been removed. 
-The Poem - Byline (DAISY) styles can be used to wrap information about the creator of, or contributor to, a work, usually consisting of more than just an author's name. A byline may not contain a name at all. +</WRAP>
  
-====Author (DAISY)==== +<note>You can update the example above to reflect the formatting of the collection you are working on.</note>
-The Author (DAISY) style can be used to wrap the author of the poem in the <author> tag in the XML. Only select the author's name and not other words, such as "by".+
  
-<note>Sometimes certain styles can be retained within the poem, such as //italics//. If you are working with a poem with such formatting please contact us to advise how edit.</note> +For more info, see the [[public:nnels:etext:producers-note|Producer's Note]] page.
- +
-<note>Some poems will end a line mid-sentence, or even mid-word. In this case keep the formatting as is. The reader will keep pace with the poem.</note> +
- +
-=====Poems in a foreign language====== +
-If the poem is in a foreign language, we can select the text and go to ''Tools > Language > Mark Selected Text As'' and select the relevant language of the text. +
- +
-If only select individual words are in other languages, do not apply any language formatting. Simply make a note of this and include this note when you are done and transfer the ticket to the Production Coordinator via RT.  +
- +
-=====Complex Formatting and Producer's Notes====== +
- +
-Sometimes you will come across a poem that has more complex formatting that can not be translated to DAISY. +
- +
-We can not retain this formatting for DAISY conversion. +
- +
-<note>If you have any complex formatting that is not covered below, please ask in the [[public:nnels:etext:q_a|Q&A]].</note>+
  
 ====Common Types of Complex Formatting===== ====Common Types of Complex Formatting=====
Line 61: Line 41:
   * and concrete poetry.   * and concrete poetry.
  
-In poetry the use of blank space on a page, between lines, words, or even letters, can be used to convey meaning. We can not retain blank spaces.+In poetry the use of blank space on a page, between lines, words, or even letters, can be used to convey meaning. We do not retain blank spaces.
  
-Lines, stanzas, or entire poems can use right justification to convey meaning. We can not retain right justification.+Lines, stanzas, or entire poems can use right justification to convey meaning. We do not retain right justification.
  
-A Concrete poem is a poem where the words create a shape on the page that conveys a visual meaning. We can not retain the original shape of a concrete poem.+A concrete poem is a poem where the words create a shape on the page that conveys a visual meaning. We do not retain the original shape of a concrete poem.
  
-<note>If you have a concrete poem, simply keep the line break/word breaks as they originally appear with left justification and insert an In-Text Producer's Note explaining the original shape of the poem. [[public:nnels:etext:poetry#in-text_producers_notes|See below]] for more on when and how to use these notes for poetry.</note>+<note>If you have a concrete poem, simply keep the line break/word breaks as they originally appear with left justification.</note>
  
-<WRAP center round box 80%>+<WRAP center round box 90%>
 **Example** **Example**
 Original Poem: Original Poem:
Line 75: Line 55:
 {{:public:nnels:etext:concrete_poem_example.jpg?400|}} {{:public:nnels:etext:concrete_poem_example.jpg?400|}}
  
-In-Text Producer's Note Text:+**Example** 
 +Transcribed Poem:
  
-BEGIN PRODUCER'S NOTE+expresses its
  
-In the section titled (5) the words after the first line originally appeared with no spaces and in the shape of a hammer. The poem has been reformatted to have spaces between the words, and without word breaks at the end of lines.+regret
  
-END PRODUCER'S NOTE +for the
-</WRAP>+
  
-====Images in Poems==== +ramifications of former wrongs and its commitment to
-Sometimes you will come across images of text in poems. This is a big no-no in publishing and not accessible. See the section on [[https://bclc.wiki.libraries.coop/doku.php?id=public:nnels:etext:images#images_of_words_and_phrases|Images of Text for more]].+
  
-We transcribe all images of text and mark up with the appropriate NNELS styles. If it was a case of complex formatting, then use an In-Text Producer's Note.+build on the positive relationships of the past and
  
-Sometimes you will find the poet has used an image of a black bar to signify the censorship of a word of phase. In this can you can keep the image and add the Alt-Text "Thick black bar blocking out word/phrase."+present to move toward a brighter future where all the
  
-====Producer's Note=====+people of this land live reconciled as brothers and
  
-In these cases include a [[public:nnels:etext:producers-note|Producer's Note]] at the beginning of the book.+sisters and harmoniously steward and protect 
  
-<WRAP center round box 80%> +the 
-**Producer's Note [Heading Style 1]**+ 
 +island together
  
-This book originally appeared with special paragraph and line spaces that added to the meaning of the text. Due to the conversion process these design elements have been removed. For poems that originally appeared with more complex formatting there are in-text producer’s notes. 
 </WRAP> </WRAP>
  
-<note>You can update the example above to reflect the formatting of the collection you are working on.</note>+====Images in Poems==== 
 +Sometimes you will come across images of text in poems. This is a big no-no in publishing and not accessible. See the section on [[https://bclc.wiki.libraries.coop/doku.php?id=public:nnels:etext:images#images_of_words_and_phrases|Images of Text]] for more info.
  
-For more info please go to the [[public:nnels:etext:producers-note|Producer's Note]] page.+We transcribe all images of text and mark up with the appropriate NNELS styles.
  
-====In-Text Producers Notes=====+Sometimes you will find the poet has used an image of a black bar to signify the censorship of a word of phase. In this can you can keep the image and add the alt-text "Thick black bar blocking out word/phrase."
  
-If there are individual poems within a collection that have complex formatting you may have to also include In-Text Producer's Notes to explain the original formatting and how it has changed with conversion.+==== Q&A Archive ==== 
 +Q: I have a follow up question about the poetry book, How to Dress a Fish. In your answer below regarding the sections of text that are censored with a black box, you said, "Keep the black boxes and add the alt-text "thick black line that blocks out word" ". I'm just looking for some clarification around this. 
  
-Always us the ''Prodnote - Optional (DAISY)'' for all poetry in-text producer's notes.+I expected that the black boxes would be images of black boxes since you said to add alt-text for them. I've actually found that all the black boxes I've encountered so far (I'm about 30% through) are regular text in the docx file - so, I can see the word that was originally blacked out in the text and there are no images of black boxes to add alt-text to. 
  
-<note important>Use the In-text Producer's Notes sparingly. If you find you are repeating the same information in your In-Text notes for multiple poems then //only// include it in the main Producer's Note at the beginning of the book. This will avoid repetition.</note>+So, to format it to be like the original, I was deleting the word meant to be blacked out and then inserting the Unicode that you gave me for another poetry book, U+25AC. But I just realized that I can instead highlight the word that needs to be blacked out and use the highlight tool to make it black. Then it looks just like the original. Is it okay to proceed that way? There are also some words that are highlighted grey but still legible and I thought I could apply this technique to these as well. Does highlighting words work when you do the XML markup? If this approach won't work, should I stick with the Unicode symbol of a black bar?
  
-<note>All In-text Producer's Notes must appear //before// the poem title. Otherwise it will not be compatible with DAISY conversion.</note>+A: Sorry for the confusion.  Highlighting is not accessible, most direct formatting is not which is why we rely so heavy on styles. Your original approach to deleting and inserting the black bar is the best way to go. Keep it as close to the original as possible. Great work! 
  
-See [[public:nnels:etext:producers-note#in-text_producer_s_note|In-Text Producer's Note]] for more information on usage and styling.+----
  
-Below is an example from the book //Whereas//, by Layli Long Soldier. The title of the poem is 'He Sapa' that is broken down into sub-headings with each sub-section having special formatting in the original poem.  The in-line Producer's Note is placed //after// the navigation title styled with ''Heading 1'', and //before// the title styled with ''Poem - Title''.  +Q: I am currently working on the poetry book "Render" and one of the poems, "Following the Leader", was created to look like a list with sequential numbering on each line. Should I format the poem as a list (to avoid confusion from the sequential numbering) or leave the poem as it is because some of the sentences are spread across multiple lines?
  
-For more information on what elements can go within a poem's DAISY XML Structure please check out the [[http://www.daisy.org/z3986/structure/SG-DAISY3/part2-poem.html|DAISY 3 Structure Guidelines]] for Poetry. +A: Recreate it with the same numbers as it is in the original. The poet meant for the lines to break up like that, as this is a common technique in poetry to convey meaning and emotion.
  
-<WRAP center round box 80%> +---- 
-**Example of An In-Line Producer's Note**+Q: Also in "Render," there is a poem (There's Nothing There)that is created to look like a table and was formatted as a table during the conversion process. Should I leave this poem in the table format?
  
-**{{:public:nnels:etext:poetry_in_line_producer_s_note_example.png?400|}}**+A: This is not a table, it is three columns. Tables are used for tabular data, in this case it was used to create the layout for the columns. This is not accessible, and is also poor publishing practice. To create columns see [[public:nnels:etext:columns|Columns]] section.
  
-**Original Poem Sections**+----
  
-**{{:public:nnels:etext:poetry_in_line_producers_note_original_example1.png?400|}}** 
  
-**{{:public:nnels:etext:poetry_in_line_producers_note_original_example2.png?400|}}**+Q: I'm wondering about alignment and spacing. The poet in the book I'm editing (Silvija) makes use of left and right justification at some points in the book. Should I align the text as the poet did or stick to right justification only? Also, the book contains a lot of white space (poems are on separate pages). Should I add page breaks in this case? Finally, I just want to verify that the slash ('/') that is used in poetry should remain as written or changed somehow for conversion into DAISY? Thanks!
  
-**{{:public:nnels:etext:poetry_in_line_producers_note_original_example3.png?400|}}** +A: Poetry is a controversial area of ebook production :) NNELS takes the approach of using left justification for all our documents. For some people, text justification may present readability issues. Extended spaces between words and sometimes letters within words can create spaces of white that can visually dominate the text. If you use screen magnification then magnifying these spaces of white, in particular the space in between words, can increase the need for scrolling beyond what would be required if text was aligned to one side.
-</WRAP>+
  
-=====Example Word and XML markup=====+You can delete all empty pages as we don't have to worry about retaining the original page numbers in this work.
  
-====Example 1====+And yes, do use all the original punctuation. TTS is good at reading punctuation. If you're curious how TTS can read text, you can enable the built-in dictation software on your iOS (VoiceOver) or Windows. Keep in mind that TTS software tend to differ [[http://​webaim.org/​techniques/​screenreader/​|Screenreaders]].
  
-**In Word, if we tag the text below with the Poem (DAISY) style...** +Q: Currently working on Pendent que Perceval Tombait (poem). I saw a previous Q&A mentioned that all blank pages should be removed (we do not need to keep same page numbering), but we can keep the text on separate pages for the poetry book. I know that we also have to remove page breaks. Is this the exception for page breaks? The answer in that Q&A was not clear to me. Otherwise, how would you keep the text on separate pages? There are often no headings, so I can't even use headings as a divider instead. Each page has 4-5 lines, and then skips to the next page. 
-    +
-   aujourd’hui +
-   le temps a métallisé la neige +
-   et le silence s’est réjoui +
-   pour mieux se confondre +
-   des traits blancs se précipitent au sol  +
-   des montagnes s’accrochent +
-   sur les écorces des arbres et sur +
-   des bras épineux +
-   les verts disparaissent +
-   les bleus deviennent opalescents +
-   les contours des bruns et des roux +
-   s’estompent +
-   par moments +
-   un oiseau tire un trait noir +
-   dans cet espace accéléré+
  
-**... then this is the output we will get in XML: +A: That was back from when we did DAISY. I removed that line from the wiki. Just format it with headings and no page breaks. We don't keep page numbering in conversion. 
-** +---- 
- <poem> +Q: Another question about My Art is Killing Me (poetry). There are parts of the poems that use a different color for the words to convey the author speaking to the reader. 
- <linegroup> +
- <line>aujourd’hui</line> +
- <line>le temps a métallisé la neige</line> +
- <line>et le silence s’est réjoui</line> +
- <line>pour mieux se confondre</line> +
- <line>des traits blancs se précipitent au sol </line> +
- <line>des montagnes s’accrochent</line> +
- <line>sur les écorces des arbres et sur</line> +
- <line>des bras épineux</line> +
- <line>les verts disparaissent</line> +
- <line>les bleus deviennent opalescents</line> +
- <line>les contours des bruns et des roux</line> +
- <line>’estompent</line> +
- <line>par moments</line> +
- <line>un oiseau tire un trait noir</line> +
- <line>dans cet espace accéléré</line> +
- </linegroup> +
- </poem>+
  
-====Example 2====+I know that we do not do this. Is this something that also goes into the production note? Or is there a way to emphasize this? 
 +{{:public:nnels:etext:color.png?400|}}
  
-**In Word, if we tag the text below with the Poem (DAISY), the Poem - Title (DAISY), and the Author (DAISY) styles...**+A: Put a not in a Producer's Note stating the original used colour to convey emphasis and was removed in this version. We can not apply our own emphasis as that would be editing the book with our interpretation of the artist's intent and would break copyright law. Unfortunately, as you know, coloured font is not accessible. The Producer's Note is the middle ground. 
 +---- 
 +Q: Working on My Art is Killing Me (poetry) and there is this formatting in one of the poems:
  
-      XXIX  +{{:public:nnels:etext:do_i_keep..png?400|}}
-       +
-       When in disgrace with fortune and men's eyes +
-       I all alone beweep my outcast state,</line> +
-       And trouble deaf heaven with my bootless cries, +
-       And look upon myself, and curse my fate +
-        +
-       William Shakespeare+
  
-**...then this is the output we will get in XML:**+Do I keep it? I'm leaning on *not*. In that case, how do I format it? Just remove the lines?
  
-   <poem> +A: Replace the lines with commas.
-       <title>XXIX</title> +
-        <linegroup> +
-           <line>When in disgrace with fortune and men's eyes</line> +
-           <line>I all alone beweep my outcast state,</line> +
-           <line>And trouble deaf heaven with my bootless cries,</line> +
-           <line>And look upon myself, and curse my fate</line> +
-       </linegroup> +
-       <author>William Shakespeare</author> +
-   </poem>+
  
-=====Q&A=====+---- 
 +Q: I'm working on "Letters from a Bruised Cosmos" and I need some direction on two poems. I know that we can't maintain the formatting of concrete poems, but in these cases, I'm not sure the best way to "not" maintain formatting... 
 +The first poem:
  
-Q: Another poetry question: In the book Treaty #, on page 1, 33, and 63, there are a bunch of backwards words. They're English but they're spelled backwards. They also seem to be slightly out of order. I'm just wondering if you have any suggestions about how to handle this? Do you think I should just leave it as is?  The backwards English words are so hard to read (which I think is the author's point) but people with print disabilities may not be able to access them at all this way. I'm wondering about inserting a second version with the words spelled normally but still out of order, with a producer's note explaining that in the original version, they are spelled backwards? Just for accessibility reasons.+{{:public:nnels:etext:screen_shot_2022-05-30_at_8.35.12_pm.png?400|}}
  
-A: In this case, leave it as is since it is the intent of the author to have it difficult or impossible to read.  Insert a inline producer's not before the title of the poem explaining that the poem includes words that are backwards and out of order to intentionally create confusion for the reader. +In this case, I'm not sure if the line "The whole in the sky" should be at the end of the poem (this is how it looks when I clear formatting), or if I should have the line in the middle of the other lines (ex. A guilt folds into me like THE humanity. *but without the capitalization). The lines aren't exactly lined up, so this didn't feel like the best fit to me. 
-----+The second poem:
  
 +{{:public:nnels:etext:screen_shot_2022-05-30_at_8.35.27_pm.png?400|}}
  
-Q: In the book of poetry I'm working on (St. Boniface Elegies), there are quite a few words marked with italics. On the page on poetry in the wiki, it says, "Sometimes certain styles can be retained within the poem, such as italics. If you are working with a poem with such formatting please contact us to advise how edit." So, could you let me know how I should handle the italics in this book? +In this case, I think the lines are intended to be read horizontally, and each section can be read vertically. Do I leave them in section and have them stacked (this is the way it looks when I remove formatting), or leave the sections side by side, and remove the spacing between the sections? 
 +Thanks for your help!
  
-A: You can retain the italics in the lines of poetry, but remove the italics from the titles, blockquotes, Acknowledgements, and About the Author. The italics in the poems themselves are there for emphasis, while all the other times it is just a visual stylistic choice that does not add meaning to the text and therefore not needed for conversion.+A: Unfortunately, this is a great example of a book where meaning is lost with reformatting. There is no clear way to retain "Meaning" for this poems. And since poems are very subjective, it can be a tough call. The best way to make a call on this is to walk through what we consider the intended meaning of the poem.
  
-----+In the first example "The Hole In the Sky" is supposed to be a hole in the poem, but also it should be able to be read as one phrase. I am leaning towards keeping the words together in one phrase (i.e. "The Hole in the Sky") and inserting it in the center of the poem where the word "the" shows up, maybe in parentheses to help keep it separated as an interjection to the poem.
  
 +In the second example, my first instinct is to apply columns to the poem, but there is no way for the screen reader to read it horizontally. Maybe, we could repeat the poem in both reading order?
  
-Q: Also relating to the book of poems (St. Boniface Elegies), I've come across a poem that is divided into sections and each section has a title. So essentially they are sub-titles and normally I would give them the next level of headings. But since this is poetry, I'm not sure how to handle them. Should I tag the sub-titles with the Poem - Title style? With the next level heading style? Or not tag them at all? The poem I'm referring to is called "downtown campus" in Part 1 of the book.  +You should add to the producer's notes that these changes are made. For example: ''In the poem Title of Poem, the phrase "The Hole in the Sky" originally when over the center of three lines. I this version it is inserted as a single phrase in the center of only the first line. In the poem Title of Poem, the original was styled to be read in two ways. In this version we have repeated the poem twice to retain the multiple reading order options.'' You can rephrase that as you wish.
- +
-A: Keep them as Poem (DAISY), but retain the italics. You can also put an inline producers note to explain what you have done. The wiki has some examples of this in the poetry section.  Poems are often a bit tricky, since they are both creative and we are limited by what we can do within the DAISY consortium standards for access.  Hope that helps!  +
-----+
  
  
-**Q: I am editing a poetry book that uses Italian, French, and Latin.  If I apply a language to one word, it changes the entire line or stanza.  Should I just leave it as poetry style?** 
  
-A: Unfortunately, identifying languages in Word doesn't translate well to DAISY XML and requires manual editing of language tags in the XML. You can just leave the Word version without language markup and use just the poetry style. Just make a note in the RT ticket that there are multiple languages.+[[public:nnels:etext:start|Return to main eText Page]] ​
public/nnels/etext/poetry.1588972636.txt.gz · Last modified: 2020/05/08 14:17 by rachel.osolen

Page Tools

BC Libraries Coop wiki

Site Tools